How To Create A Killer Webinar That Closes Customers with Tim Paige

Present Beyond Measure Ep. 043

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE

Introducing Webinar Conversion Rockstar, Tim Paige

When you’re thinking about how to create a webinar, think about the last webinar you attended. What did you learn? Were you impressed? Did you purchase the product or service being sold?

Webinars are easily a hot item in marketing right now, especially for Software as a Service (SaaS) providers. Many businesses understand the sales potential in hosting webinars. But, many people simultaneously don’t understand the fine art of creating webinars that make an impact and drive sales.

And that’s why it is my pleasure to introduce you to my guest today, Tim Paige.

Tim is a megastar in the voiceover, digital marketing, and online entrepreneurial space and he has a massive knowledge set when it comes to creating and delivering webinars, especially for the SaaS industry.

In his role as a certified webinar rockstar, Tim has given over 1,000 live webinars for companies like Leadpages, Social Media Examiner, Smart Marketer, Drip, and many more. He has helped his clients earn over $12 million in revenue.

Also, he is a professional voice actor so you might have actually heard his voice on NBC, The Weather Channel, Jimmy Kimmel, on Audible, or…as the intro on my podcast!

In this episode, Tim shares some of his most top-secret tips and tricks for creating webinars that convert customers. He shares his journey from being asked to do his first webinar with only one day notice to being the dynamic webinar presence he is today.

Also, he explains the importance of authenticity and care for impacting your audience.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn…

  • How Tim fell into the webinar world on accident while working at LeadPages, which began with him having a one-day notice to prepare and present his first webinar.
  • His secret ingredients for creating successful webinars including different things he sees happening now and what should be done instead.
  • The real secret that there isn’t actually a secret, just the importance of valuing people.
  • How important it is for people to focus on their Live presentation AND their follow-up.
  • The emphasis he places on making sure all audience members leave with something, even if they can’t afford to pay or are not going to buy.
  • How being transparent, real, honest, and open influence conversions.
  • His mindset around sales and responsibility for sharing your special skill set with the world.
  • The story of his highest converting webinar, and how being human made a difference.
  • His favorite and least favorite metrics for analyzing webinar success.

How to Keep Up with Tim:

Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining me. Have some feedback you’d like to share or a question for Tim? Leave a note in the comments below, and we’ll get back to you!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the left of the post.

If you liked what you heard, I would love if you could leave me a rating or review in iTunes. Ratings & reviews are extremely appreciated and very important in the rankings algorithm. The more ratings, the better chance of fellow practitioners getting to hear this helpful information!

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes to get automatic updates and never miss a show.

A very, very special thank you to Tim for joining me this week. And as always, viz responsibly, my friends.

Do you have a burning question for Tim about how to create mind-blowing webinars that convert?

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Lea Pica: [00:00:00] Happy May! Lea Pica here. Today’s guest wrote the book on delivering killer webinars. I’ll give you a hint. You’re about to hear him speak right now. Stay tuned to find out who’s rocking the airwaves on the Present Beyond Measure Show episode 43.

Lea Pica: [00:00:15] Welcome to the Present Beyond Measure Show. A podcast at the intersection of analytics data visualization and presentation awesomeness. You’ll learn the best tips tools and techniques for creating analytics visualizations and presentations that inspire data-driven decisions and move forward. If you’re ready to get your insights understood and acted upon. You’re in the right place and now your host Lea Pica.

Lea Pica: [00:00:41] Hey guys welcome to the forty-third episode of Present Beyond Measure. The only podcast at the intersection of presentation data visualization and storytelling and Digital Analytics. This is the place to be if you’re ready to make maximum impact and create credibility through thoughtfully presented insights. So it’s been a little quiet on the podcast airwaves because I’ve barely been home. It’s been a whirlwind spring travel season. I’m very blessed. I just got back from a keynote at the Web a Quebec Conference and gave a few workshops to Microsoft in Seattle. But I’m finally back home for about six more days before I’m off again.

Lea Pica: [00:03:49] All right so I’m always excited about my guests. Let’s be honest. But this guest today I have a particular fondness for because he’s not necessarily as known in the digital analytics space but he is a megastar in the digital marketing and online entrepreneurial space and he has a massive knowledge that when it comes to delivering webinars especially Software as a Service webinars the learnings that he dropped on this interview were just astounding. And he is so generous with his time and knowledge that he even continued going with me after our interview had finished to drop one of the most important things from the interview at all so I’m so excited because I know that there are a lot of technology platforms and SaaS providers that probably listen to this show and you’re giving webinars and I’m telling you if that’s you absolutely cannot miss this. And if you’re a practitioner in a company or an agency analyst or whatnot you’re giving web-based presentations anyway and all of this knowledge could be really valuable for you too. So I am so thrilled.

Lea Pica: [00:05:15] So let’s get to it

Lea Pica: [00:05:24] Hello. Welcome. Today’s guest has hosted over 1000 live webinars for some of the most successful SaaS startups. And he is a certified webinar rock star. I can tell you that in my field of entrepreneurship his career in creating and hosting high converting webinars has brought in a total of over twelve million dollars in revenue for his clients. That client list features startups that have just skyrocketed like Leadpages, Social Media Examiner, Smart Marketer, Drip, Funnel Dash just to name a couple. And when he’s not busy hosting webinars he is a professional voice actor. So you might have actually heard his voice on NBC, The CW, The Weather Channel, Jimmy Kimmel, the UFC, and you know the list goes on. And a little fun fact he’s actually the dynamic and engaging voice behind my podcast introduction. And he’s here today to give us some of the most top secret ingredients he has in creating and delivering webinars that convert customers. So, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Mr. Tim Paige

Tim Paige: [00:06:41] Hello. Hello.

Lea Pica: [00:06:42] He just bowed for people on the podcast.

Lea Pica: [00:06:47] Oh Tim. I mean obviously this has been months in the making and I was pinching myself when we first connected because as an entrepreneur, in the webinar and information product fields you know I remember attending your webinars with Leadpages when I was just starting out and figuring out things like content upgrades and lead magnets and sales pages and I kind of struck gold when you offered free podcast voiceovers with a membership and then a mutual friend of ours connected us and it just went from there. And I can just see you know what I’m seeing in my industry of digital marketing and analytics. There are so many providers of software as a service for digital tool sets the analytics platforms things like that. Lots of webinars going on to try to get these tools in people’s hands and they can be falling short in a lot of ways. So that’s why you have to have you here.

Tim Paige: [00:07:47] No doubt about it. I see a lot of people see that it works. They see companies like Leadpages and other companies in various spaces that are doing webinars and having all these people on them. So they think OK let’s do a webinar but they don’t stop to think how can I use this webinar to benefit you know potential customers and existing customers how can I use it to not only drive sales but also have people actually recognize that we care and recognize that we’re thought leaders and provide value in the marketplace as opposed to here’s just another marketing channel. Here’s another way to get sales. So yeah I think that has led to an explosion of webinars and also a perception in the marketplace that webinars are just infomercials by you know consumers. You know we put a lot of people will tell you they hate attending webinars but it’s because they haven’t been on a kind of webinar with people that care about them beyond just a sale.

Lea Pica: [00:08:49] So I think there’s so much wisdom in what you’re saying and I want to get into kind of the allowing value and benefits to drive in a moment. But you’re right. I think that’s the common ingredient to a successful presentation a successful podcast episode or Facebook Live or whatever you’re doing or sales page is. And I do this to where I talk about like this is why this product is great. Yes not here’s the transformation you’re going to experience as a result of it. So let’s bookmark that because I want to go over the value piece a lot. But first I thought it would be interesting for the listeners to hear how it is you became the king of webinars for pages and for so many entrepreneurs and voice acting as well.

Tim Paige: [00:09:36] It’s funny you mentioned you know Leadpages and now that was how you were introduced to me in your early stages of this business. I was following Leadpages as well. You know I was watching Clay who was the CEO of Leadpages who was hosting the webinars and watching what he was doing and being so amazed and we were connected through a mutual friend, John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneur on Fire, introduced me to Clay and Clay brought me on to start the Leadpages podcast. That’s what I was brought onto the team there to do. I had nothing to do with webinars. It’s really funny and I’ve never done a webinar. So I was brought on to start the podcast because it was a podcast. And at one point Clay had gotten sick and he couldn’t, He had a webinar scheduled for the next day and he was like I won’t be able to do it. Have you ever spoken in front of large groups have you ever done sales presentations.

Tim Paige: [00:10:24] And I had in-person but never on a webinar so I said OK I’ll figure it out. So he gives me the video of his last webinar and the slide deck and said OK tomorrow you’re going to host it. So that was nuts. I had one day to learn it and I did my best. You know I had a script but I don’t work well with scripts in terms of the webinar so I did my best. Went on the webinar and I out-converted Clay’s average on my first webinar. And Clay came back and said Well how’d you like to do the webinars going forward? Yeah. So I started doing that. And I did I think nine hundred Leadpages webinars. We were at a point where we were doing like 10 a week on an average week. And then from there, it came to a point where you know things were really rolling at Leadpages the team had grown so much. There were other people that were on the team starting to do webinars and I felt like it was time for me to branch out and start to do new things so I had a few different companies that had been reaching out to me asking me to do their webinar so I went off and did my own thing and have now hosted webinars for all those different companies that you mentioned.

Lea Pica: [00:11:39] What an amazing ride, do you think like the universe, Sorry Clay we’re getting sick that day, The universe had a plan and he was grateful.

Tim Paige: [00:11:48] You know he was just I guess I didn’t want to get sick but you know it worked out. You know we ended up doing so well and he could step out and do you know lead the organization which when I started there were 26 people and there were like 300 by the time I left. So you know it’s what needed to happen for him. And it gave me a great opportunity.

Lea Pica: [00:12:09] Well it’s amazing what happens when you find your respective zones of genius you know and the ripple effect that that happens for a whole company and for thousands of entrepreneurs. So wow what an amazing story. So you know we were talking about what I’d like to focus on the theme for today is what are the secret ingredients of successful webinars that people out there are running them just don’t know about yet. So it might be great to start with like what are you seeing happening now from the minute they go live to the minute they close. What are you seeing and what would you like to see instead of what’s work better.

Tim Paige: [00:12:49] Well I’ll share a little anticlimactic piece of information and that is that the secret is there aren’t really any secrets. The secret is that it comes down to people and understanding people and valuing people and having a sense of what is it that somebody is here is looking for. What’s keeping them up at night. Clay used to say used to talk about the pillow tests when somebody is lying awake at night in their bed and they’re there they can’t sleep because something’s on their mind and they’re thinking if only I could.

Lea Pica: [00:13:28] Wow. Interesting.

Tim Paige: [00:13:28] What’s that thing. Yeah. And if you can help them with that thing your their hero whatever it is it doesn’t sometimes it’s big sometimes it’s small sometimes it’s if only I could increase my conversion rate by half a percent sometimes it’s if only I could figure out a way to motivate my people whatever right it could be anything but if you can solve that thing and you can provide a means to solve that thing through your webinar changes everything and they’ll buy whatever tools you offer them as long as it’s in line with what you’re you’re teaching them. Yeah, so I think that’s the secret. The secret is just caring about that the most. I mean look we’re marketers we’re entrepreneurs we need to make money. No doubt about it. I’m in favor but we’ll make money by doing that. And you know some other things that you can do that can lead them from that so here’s my money. So you ask what I’m seeing. And it’s really interesting because a few years ago if you had asked me about webinars I would have said go nuts let’s go crazy webinars it’s the way to go that’s super easy.

Tim Paige: [00:14:33] It’s a little harder now. And that’s not a bad thing. What it means is that if you’re good you will do an amazing job you will excel because people have such low expectations of a webinar right now. At one point everybody would just attend webinars. You would see so many people go this is my first webinar and they’re watching a webinar and they’ve never seen one. Now everybody’s seen one expert now. Now everyone’s seen a bad one. And so that makes a difference. And it means that you don’t have to do that much to stand out. You don’t have to be that good to stand out a little bit of good a little bit of care will really help you stand out. So that’s one thing I’m seeing change. Another big change that’s happened is it used to be the majority of your sales would come on the live Webinar. The people that were there with you live that day. That’s where your sales came from. We were seeing like 98 percent of our sales would come live and then we’d see a few trickle in afterward.

Tim Paige: [00:15:31] Now it’s a way smaller the percentage. It’s like it’s not even 50/50 it’s probably 30/70. 30 percent will come to live, 70 percent will come in the follow up if not more. So the follow up is as critical as the webinar itself. Now if the webinar sucks and the follow up is great You’re not going to get a lot of sales with the webinar is great but the follow-up sucks you’re not going to get a lot of sales. It’s a combination of those two things that will get you the best bang for your buck. And the other thing I think well, there are a few other things. So another thing that I’m seeing change is that you know we know ads are getting more expensive right. You know paid media is becoming more and more expensive as the marketplace gets more crowded and we have to be more sophisticated as marketers. And so there is a higher premium on having a built-in audience but that’s not really awesome for a lot of us who are like well that’s great but I’ve already got my audience I’m trying to expand. So again we need to be better with our webinars and with our follow-ups in order for that paid media to be worth it.

Lea Pica: [00:16:35] Could more make sure you’re maximizing what you’re investing the upper part of the funnel. Yeah. Really fine-tuning what’s at the lower part. That can scale

Tim Paige: [00:16:46] And be prepared to spend more to get people onto a webinar. Don’t be afraid as long as your webinar is good and your follow up is good then it’s worth spending more if your webinar stinks and your follow up stinks. You’re going to spend more money without getting that return.

Lea Pica: [00:17:01] So maybe a frugal approach for people that have limited advertising budget is to test organically with an art audience as much with an organic audience as much as possible. Really try to fine tune those rates at the lower part and then start to eat in the upper part.

Tim Paige: [00:17:18] Yep if you can. If you can get to a level where with your organic stuff if your webinar if you could take half the sales from that webinar and be profitable from ads then you’re good to go. So that’s it. That’s kind of a good estimate. And then I think the other thing that I’m seeing that’s working more and more is I used to only create and advise people to create a webinar that was.

[00:17:47] Here are the things that you can do to achieve X result. So it would be for Leadpages we would teach people how to get a better conversion rate on their landing pages so maybe an example would be four steps to increase your conversion rate of your landing page. Step 1 You know do this with your headline. Step 2 do this with your button. Right. Now that still works great but at a certain level depending on who your audience is. One thing that’s working maybe even better is the webinar teaches a particular philosophy and you sell the tool as an ability to implement that philosophy.

Lea Pica: [00:18:26] Interesting. Wow.

Tim Paige: [00:18:28] So an example would be let’s say that you have a tool that helps make your, that helps to kind of build a team dynamic that’s positive right. It helps you to you know to give each other kind of kudos and helps you to kind of survey people and find out like how they’re feeling about their job. That kind of thing. So what you do is you do a webinar that sells them on your philosophy about team building and connection and that kind of thing and you’re spending a lot of time on that webinar just to really helping them understand the difference between punishing people and just offering people money as opposed to giving them kudos and giving them freedom and that kind of thing.

Tim Paige: [00:19:15] Right. So you sell them on that philosophy and then at the end you show them now you if you’re at this point you’re on board with this philosophy. Here are some things that you can do to start that ball rolling in your company thing one is this. Let me show you how our software can help you do that. Seeing too is this. Let me show you how our software can do that. So the purpose of the webinar is selling the philosophy right and when I say selling I mean getting them to buy in quote-unquote to the philosophy and then at the end you are showing them how to actually incorporate that philosophy within their company or whatever it is by using your product. So that’s a big switch that’s working a lot better for people now.

Lea Pica: [00:19:57] So I’m wondering if we could help elaborate by using a launch that I’m planning in a few weeks. Yeah. Shameless plug. It’s my show. I can.

Tim Paige: [00:20:11] Absolutely go nuts.

Lea Pica: [00:20:13] So I am launching a next slide run of my three sessions virtual boot camp for data storytelling for digital marketers and analysts. And if anyone wants to see that it’s leapica.com/bootcamp. But anyway it’s in a list but we’re planning a big launch for that and. Doing a webinar for it has only made the most sense and I’ve been really blocked around it because I’m like I don’t know if I should teach something that’s in the class. And then I don’t teach it in the class but I’m starting to hear what you’re saying is that that class has the philosophy behind it which is no one gave us the tools to learn how to present data stories in a way for impact and action. And if you want to create the career of your dreams presenting you can present your way of doing that and become an indispensable resource. So I’m I’m trying to think through like in terms of that philosophy that learning how to present data store as effectively is the key to a career of your choice and dreams like would you present. Would you talk about like mistakes the patterns you’re not seeing and why and learning alternatives? That is important. I know I’m putting you on the spot but I’m hoping this also helps the listeners think through with their own offerings the way it last.

Tim Paige: [00:21:40] Yeah the way I look at that is it’s about the why and not the how. So instead of traditionally, I would create a webinar that was all about how. And I’m a big fan. Personally, if I’m attending a webinar I want to see a webinar about how but I’m not everybody. The data is shaking out that people respond better to a y webinar so you know the specifics for your particular thing. I’m not sure it’s about I think getting them to buy into the ability to or the reasoning why they would want to do that. So what is it that the average person is doing that’s not working and why is. Why is following your format a better way to do it. And it’s not selling them on your format it’s selling them on the reasoning behind your format.

Lea Pica: [00:22:34] Ok so what makes what the why. The neuroscience backed reasons why your approach may not be working. And like it could point them to kind of those reasons and then seeing that the how is behind a wall.

Tim Paige: [00:22:50] Yes. Yeah. And you’re not going to leave them hanging. So we’re not completely saying look here’s why this is important. Now buy my product to note to learn how to do it. It’s more here’s why this is important. And then here are some basic steps you can take and my product whether it’s a course or software or whatever my product will make it that much easier to implement it. One of the things that I would encourage everybody to do is make sure that when somebody leaves your webinar they can do something different. Even if they don’t buy anything. If you leave people hanging to the point where they if they don’t spend money with you they can’t do anything. You will lose your sales. And I know you wouldn’t do that but I’m sharing that with our listeners. It’s really important to leave them with something no it doesn’t have to be a lot. And in fact, too much can have the opposite effect. If if you give people even if it’s the best information in the world if you give people too much to do or too much information they won’t be able to understand it and they’ll think it’s either above them or you know it doesn’t apply to them. You give them just enough so seldom on the philosophy right.

Tim Paige: [00:24:08] The neuroscience behind why this is important and how it can impact them. Show them some results. Yeah whether for you or for other clients but not in a sense of like well they took my program and this but more or so. So you did these things and was able to see these results and then towards the end, it’s OK. So after learning all this and buying into this philosophy how do we do this. Well, here’s the first way. The first way is you start to do X Y and Z and in doing X Y and Z you get this result by the way. As I promised in the beginning and I’ll talk about this in a bit remind me to come back to this because I talked about in the beginning I’m going to tell you in a little bit about how you can enroll in my program that’s just designed to hold your hand or how you can stand up for my software that’s just designed to make it so much easier to do this. We’re inserting just a little. I want to say like teases little hooks that say I’m gonna let you know that once this webinar is over with. I’m not leaving you hanging. We were at it. Yeah.

Lea Pica: [00:25:12] Ok so you’re teasing the offer. You’re saying look don’t worry what I have is it’s coming but I don’t want to go through these other ends like it’s increasing that anticipation which can their attention levels.

Tim Paige: [00:25:25] And it’s all about. Yeah. And it’s all about the presentation as well. Like we don’t want. I don’t ever want to present it. As I’ve got something to sell you and you should buy that thing. It’s more a matter of I do have something to sell you but I’m only going to tell you about it because it’s going to be the bridge between here and where you want to go. Now you can get to where you want to go even if you don’t ever take my bridge. It just means you’re gonna have to go a long way around right.

Lea Pica: [00:25:53] Oh I love that. That’s great because that popped in my head when you said like here’s the first way to go about it. And I thought of like all the books that I’ve read all the articles that I thought years I spent trying to piece everything together. And it took like at least five years to have a structured approach right. And now I’m hearing like yeah you get there but yeah I might grow a beard and that’s while you’re waiting.

Tim Paige: [00:26:21] Yeah. And that’s the thing. I mean one of my lead magnets was my webinar creation checklist and it was literally my favorite webinar structure from start to finish. Everything that you should have in your webinar and I gave that away for free. And a lot of people were like How can you give that away for free. You literally build webinars for people or you teach people how to build. But you know just taking that you could eventually piece together a webinar and if you were struggling with that one thing that was going to really help you but if you just want that expert guidance if you want to avoid that learning curve then you’re going to hire me. And it’s the same thing with your software your training your consulting whatever it is you in your webinar you’re going to give them the basic means to get where they want to go you’re gonna give them maybe a map but when they sign up with you they get the shortcut.

Lea Pica: [00:27:15] Interesting. Wow, that’s so great. And I love that angle. King Tim.

Tim Paige: [00:27:21] And well. And it’s the truth. I mean that’s the thing is we’re not lying to anybody we’re not giving them something that’s you know it’s not like misleading and although we’re reframing our offer we’re never hiding it. That’s I think another thing that you see a lot of people do that makes a webinar terrible is they act like there’s no offer. They’re like this is pure information. And then at the end, they’re blindsided with an offer or need some 45 minutes of kind of a pitch that has some information in it and then it’s 15 minutes of an offer and you’re like where was the value in that. I’d rather say right up front and I guess we address this now I’d rather say right up front which I do in every single webinar I’m going to have an offer for you today. I have something for sale. OK. And sometimes and this is the one that blows people away. Sometimes I will tell them the offer upfront. It’s Oh wow. One of my favorite things. So imagine that level of transparency. Right. Imagine if you know you whatever it is buying a car buying a house and somebody said OK here’s the deal.

Tim Paige: [00:28:26] This costs this much. Here are your payments. If you decide to get this car and it might need new tires in about six months just so you know you’re like wow you’re honest that’s awesome. All right. I mean I don’t love that I need new tires and those payments are a little high but at least I know what I’m getting into. And so what I will do is and again it doesn’t work every time you want to test this. Don’t just go Oh Tim said to tell the auto to tell the price or I’m going to do that test it because I have found it doesn’t always work. But one thing that it does it it doesn’t typically increase the conversion rate what it does it doesn’t decrease it either what it does do is it keeps people on for longer. I’ve seen an average increase in the length of time that people stayed on the webinar of between five and 15 minutes. So that’s big because that means they’re staying through the offer. And the reason they’re staying through the offers because they know what it is it’s not blindside. They didn’t get to the point where you’re like now let me tell you about my products and like whoa hold up product I’m going to go. The value is gone because what you’ve said to them I’ll kind of get into that in a second to what you’ve said to them is at the end I’m going to show you how you can take the next steps and I can help you with those next steps as opposed to OK. Now here’s the part where I try to get you to buy.

Lea Pica: [00:29:43] Ok. Wow.

Tim Paige: [00:29:44] So here’s does how I present that. I’m word vomiting a bit but.

Lea Pica: [00:29:49] No this is Amazing.

Tim Paige: [00:29:51] Here’s how you present it in the beginning. You’ve got two different things you can do one you can say and we can talk about kind of where this fits into the format but you can either say OK so one thing I want you to know before we get into the content today is that I’m going to give you tons of great value. This is gonna be super helpful regardless of whether you buy anything or not but I do have something that I’m going to offer you and I’m going to tell you about it at the end. And really what it’s meant to do is it’s meant to bridge the gap between where you are and where you want to be. Now you’re gonna be able to take everything we talk about today and do it on your own. But if you want my help or you want our help or you want you to know a tool to make it all easier I’m going to show you that at the end but just stick around till then because we’re gonna get into the content right now. That’s one way to do it. OK. The other way this is my favorite. I love doing this. It throws everybody off. People will go nuts in the chat or the questions box or whatever. As you go. OK. So I’m going to get into the content in just one second but here’s one thing I found I don’t know if you feel this way but I absolutely hate when people get into they start hosting a webinar and then they’re doing all this stuff and then all of a sudden you’re like hey here’s my offer.

Tim Paige: [00:30:58] So what I’d like to do if it’s OK with you is it okay if I just give you the offer right up front so it’s just an anxiety thing is off the table and you’ll see people in the chat going Oh my God that’s amazing. Yes, do that, please. And then I’m free to go. Okay great. Here’s what it’s going to be I’ve got this product. Here’s how much it costs. Here’s there’s gonna be some bonuses maybe I’ll tell them I usually won’t but so there’s gonna be some bonuses I can tell you more about the bonuses at the end. Here’s what it comes with here’s what it’s gonna do for you. I do that in about. Two minutes and I say Okay great. Now that that’s off the table. If you don’t want it that’s awesome and if you want it I’ll tell you more details at the end. Are we cool should we move into the content now and people would be like yes that’s awesome. Almost every time. People absolutely love that you have just laid it all on the table for them to know everything about

Lea Pica: [00:31:44] Gosh that is amazing. And it’s so contrary to what we’re taught about when we’re trying to sell persuasively in like a live presentation where every conference I go to is like do not sell if you sell anything to do a brief mention at the end where I have a content upgrade usually but you start right out of the gate with why they’re there. And what you’re going to leave them what they’re going to be able to do differently like what you just said like I am about to save you ten hours of productivity time building your presentation something like that. So this goes so contrary so why do you think that I am having trouble picturing that working sir in a live conference environment. But why do you think that works so well? You know the webinar environment.

Tim Paige: [00:32:35] The funny thing is if you’re allowed to pitch at a conference it works incredibly well there too but only if you’re allowed to pitch only if the people there are expecting it. If the conference says no pitch doesn’t do it.

Lea Pica: [00:32:50] Yeah yeah of course.

Tim Paige: [00:32:51] But yeah I mean why I think it works so well and webinars are because people are tired of being misled. People are you know they’re hip to the tactics. You know I think you know to some extent there are some people the super rockstars of the world that can deploy the tactics and even if you know what’s going on you’re done right. Yeah but we’re not all super rock stars. I mean I, you say all these things like webinar King and all this stuff. I’m not like a sales rock star I’m absolutely not what I am is really honest and transparent.

Lea Pica: [00:33:26] I love that.

Tim Paige: [00:33:27] When I’m hosting a webinar your you know you’re listening to just a normal guy because I’m not smart or slick enough to just get some stuff past you. That stuff never worked for me. I was in a traditional sales environment for a long time and all the stuff they taught me didn’t work. What did work was when I walked up to you I said hi I’m a normal person I work for this company I want you to buy this thing it’s a lot of money and you may like it. And I think you will can I show it to you.

Lea Pica: [00:33:54] Wow.

Tim Paige: [00:33:55] That’s the only thing that ever worked for me. And I think that’s how the average person probably you listening to this unless you’re like a sales Rockstar then whatever it may be don’t listen to me. But if you’re the average person and this is not the thing that you already are crushing then just being real and being completely transparent and open and honest works it just works. And it again a lot of people struggle with the traditional sales stuff and that’s why I like what I do. Now again when you hear some of these amazing people and I’ll name a name who a lot of people come to me with what do you think about this guy. Russell Brunson from Clickfunnels. Everybody comes “what you think about his strategy?” It works. I mean good God he’s killing it. He’s one of the craziest marketers in the world right. So you can’t deny that that works. But I think your average person will struggle to apply that method not because the message doesn’t work but because it takes a certain something. And I couldn’t do that I couldn’t do that method not because I have anything wrong with it it just it’s not me. So what I kind of share with people is. If this stuff if you feel a little more comfortable with this stuff now you’re gonna You might be uncomfortable telling the price upfront having an offer upfront you feel a little bit more comfortable with this overall idea.

Tim Paige: [00:35:10] Then you may just want to be this upfront and honest and real and connect with people. And the cool thing about it is it works whether or not you have a certain energy level it works whether or not like you know I get a lot of people to go you know Tim, you’re so high energy and you’re nuts and you’re I paced when I do webinars and you know I’m not like and my answer is that’s great because your audience will love you because of who you are and some people won’t. But you know the people that are there that watch your webinars they’ll appreciate you. There’s a lot of people that think I’m annoying because I’m so and ridiculous and that’s fine. But what I do who I am working for my audience so anyway that’s why I think it works so well because it is it’s contrary to all the slick tactics that people are so used to hearing people do that they’re like OK well this is different this feels like a different experience. I’m in.

Lea Pica: [00:36:02] Man this is so interesting because I think there are a lot of blocks for people even who are selling about selling because selling can seem like such a sleazy. You know I don’t need to make money just take it for free. Meanwhile, people have jobs where they earn money selling things to people they don’t really need but it is like a block around selling something soft like knowledge you know something that’s not physically tangible.

Tim Paige: [00:36:32] Can I share something about that really.

Lea Pica: [00:36:36] Yeah of course.

Tim Paige: [00:36:37] Two things. One you mentioned about like selling something that’s not tangible. Just remember that we’re not I’m not selling an e-book I’m not selling like the hour that we’re on the call. I’m selling the difference in your life.

Lea Pica: [00:36:49] The outcome.

Tim Paige: [00:36:50] Right. Whatever that outcome is. That’s what you’re buying. And if you were to say to someone Hi. OK so let’s say let’s say it’s a fitness thing right. Let’s say somebody says they want to lose 50 pounds. And I said OK listen if you give me two hundred and ninety-seven dollars in three months you’ll be down 50 pounds or whatever the time frame is. Would you do that? Guaranteed if I could absolutely guarantee you that if for some magic way I could do that. Would you give me two hundred eighty-seven dollars? Yes. Right. I’m not saying to say this to somebody but I’m making the point that. If they would give you that money to do that and you have the tools to actually get them there if they do all the things you’re saying then you have a responsibility to sell them.

Lea Pica: [00:37:32] Oh I see.

Tim Paige: [00:37:33] So it may be an intangible thing that you’re selling but they’re getting the result that they want and that result is worth the money to them. So the other thing I wanted to say about that is about the block around selling. And like you know this whole thing about like taking money, especially for artists you know I know a lot of artists and actors and musicians and stuff. I have a weird thing about money right like oh or healers or yoga people right. They’re like, but it’s money. You have a responsibility because you have a knowledge or a skill set or something that people need. You have a responsibility to help people in the world. And if you can’t pay your mortgage or your bills or whatever you probably will not be able to keep your business or your service open you’ll have to go get a job doing something else and you will be helping fewer people. And so it is your responsibility to have a successful business. And the only way to have a successful business is to make money and the only way to make money is to quote-unquote sell. So you’ve got to sell. Selling is not about sleazy sales tactics. It’s about saying you want a result. I can help you with that result. You need to give me money so I can help you get that resolved. That’s all.

Lea Pica: [00:38:43] Because I got to eat. I need a house to broadcast from.

Tim Paige: [00:38:49] Exactly.

Lea Pica: [00:38:50] I know I love these mindsets these are so helpful in general for selling which I think is going to help people craft be more confident in the kinds of webinars that they craft because you know just for you like a lot of my listeners are either digital practitioners and companies or they could be SEO consultants or them could be working for SaaS platform like a like a heat mapping analytics platform for your Web site something like that and they’re doing webinars so they may not. You don’t necessarily always see these temporary offers and launches like what you see in the entrepreneurial space. So I’m curious about how they can leverage. Like I want to tell you about the offer where there might not be a specific time-based offer it might just learn more about our product. Is there a way to still leverage what you just talked about like hey I want to be upfront with you and tell you that like we have a platform for you that we want to tell you about and like it can. Can that be used the same way if there’s something isn’t timely or launching or is that’s OK?

Tim Paige: [00:39:59] Absolutely so there’s a couple of different ways. So one is if there is a if you have a very high. Friction like intentionally high friction for example not everybody can get on the phone with one of your sales reps or not everybody would buy your product say it’s very high end or it’s enterprise right. Right. Right then yeah. So, in that case, an application process can work really well. And so what I’ve been doing and I learned this from my friend Greg Hickman Yep one of his kind of things that he teaches is instead of getting people to like go and sign up for a free consultation call which feels like it has zero value right. Somebody offers you a free consultation call it feels kind of like oh well I mean anybody can do this. And it’s like you can just go to a thing on a website. I get a thing or it feels like this is a sales call. Those are the kind of two things that go through people’s minds. Even if it’s subconscious but instead an application where

Tim Paige: [00:41:00] There’s some friction between the point of you getting on the phone with the sales rep or whatever the title is going to be about the person. It feels a little bit exclusive. It feels like when I apply I really want to get on the phone. I really want to be the one that’s chosen. So all you’re doing. It’s less about like you need to apply now it’s more about looking if after hearing this philosophy if you believe that these would be positive results for your company we would love to have you fill out an application and see if maybe we can help you. We can’t help everybody there. We don’t want to waste your time and get on the phone. We don’t think we can help you. But here’s the application you can fill that out and you know obviously the sooner you can get it in the better because the sooner we’ll be able to decide whether or not you’re a good fit. That’s all it is.

Lea Pica: [00:41:48] I love that. I love it and it creates a reverse a role reversal where the provider is gunning for. Yes. And a sense of desperation where it’s creating almost a scarcity angle. Yes. Saying like we are not going to be able to help everyone and we want to know that we want to know certain things before we even start the conversation.

Tim Paige: [00:42:10] Right. They want to be chosen. And I’ll tell you somebody who does that really well even though it’s a false scarcity because anybody who can pay money can get in. I believe is up maybe that’s appropriate to say but there is there is an organization out there that they do it so well I did many many years ago I was like. I applied. I really hope I get in luck. I was literally raped my wife knew I was like I really hope I get this I think this could be huge for me and you know not everybody gets accepted and I’m sitting there like begging to be sold to. And so that that can be the exact kind of mindset. Now maybe it’s not going to be quite so aggressive like people are going to be like Oh I hope we get accepted into this you know enterprise whatever but it does that human psychology still applies and that’s one of the things I think people hosting a webinar get nervous about they’re like well I’m selling to enterprise companies so it’s you know that saying no you’re selling to a person at an enterprise company that believes maybe that your software or your whatever could be the solution for making them look better in their job or for making their company perform better or whatever it is. So that’s one thing.

Tim Paige: [00:43:19] The other thing that I would say is if it’s not if it’s not exclusive and you know it’s not going to be an application process you can instead it just straight up offer hey at this point you know we’d love to show you more about what we can do and if you feel like we might be able to help you. You don’t. You can schedule your time here. Now that’s a little bit less. I do want to be aggressive it’s a little bit less like soccer. Yeah, it’s a little softer but it still works. I’ve got a bunch of clients actually that are doing that right now and having great results because they know they need to get on the phone with somebody. They’ve done such a good job in the webinar instilling their philosophy and then giving them a few steps on how they can implement it by the time they’re done they’re going. OK. Well I could go and try to do this with spreadsheets and all these things that I really don’t have the time to do or I could get on the phone spend a half hour with a smart salesperson who can then say OK look here’s how you would implement it and then all of a sudden I’ve got all this stuff done for me so that can work really well as well.

Lea Pica: [00:44:22] This is all so good. So something that you mentioned earlier was about delivery and you know as I’m seeing as I’ve been a part of many webinars and audience member and people are extending into Facebook live streaming and live streaming and other platforms. What would you say are some of the things you’re seeing in terms of how people deliver that might be holding them back.

Tim Paige: [00:44:50] Yeah. So one thing that I would encourage people to if possible stop doing is to stop using a script. I think it’s really hard if you’re a script person. It’s really hard. I’ve received so much pushback from clients on this one I’ve advised them to stop using a script. And the reason that I suggest that is because. A great example. I mean I’m a professional voice actor. I read audiobooks and you know sometimes it’s 12 hours worth of recording for audio books. And no matter how good you are. You can still a lot of the time tell somebody who’s reading from a script and it feels so impersonal and so disconnected and there’s a magic that happens when you are just going off the cuff. There are things that you’ll say in one webinar that you might not say and another one and people get really scared of that. Like presenters and I get that. But the magic that comes out the stuff that you go oh my gosh this is a great thing I should say right now. Share that piece of knowledge and people like oh my god that’s literally how the that’s how my kind of idea of giving the offer upfront came out we were talking on a webinar about being transparent and I was like You know what would be a really cool thing to test what if you gave your whole offer up front.

Tim Paige: [00:46:14] Then I was like I’m doing that I’m going to do that. That stuff can happen. It can be aha moments for you and it can be aha moments for your audience.

Tim Paige: [00:46:23] So I think that’s a big thing. Get off script as soon as possible and does it require a lot of practice. Yes. Does it require you to be kind of weird like I am and put a lot of text on your slides yes my slides have a ton of text everybody I’ll tell you all image make your slides philosophy I know I know it is and it’s probably right and accurate but if you need that crutch to get off of script for a little while do that. Now I still use lots of images and in fact my favorite images I use a lot of means I’m so weird but that works for my brand. But that being said you know if you can do that that can help you as you make that transition. Another thing that you can do that can really help with you know with your presentation and being connected is to think about your subtext. Now, this is a hard one. I would say that this is kind of an advanced technique but if you can think about the subtext of your language you can start to drive people to feel a certain way whatever way you want them to feel without it being so obvious that you’re bludgeoning them over the head. For example, let’s say that you are seeing that somebody is in your comments or your chat and they are. Asking about a competitor right. Over. I’ll give an example I’ll give a clear example that everybody probably knows if they’re in the space.

Tim Paige: [00:47:51] So right I was doing webinars for Leadpages, Clickfunnels as a competitor. OK. So all the time people would be saying how does lead pages compared to clicks on us. Common question right now what a lot of people will do is either one they’ll ignore it which is not the right option or two they will try to act as if that other solution is garbage its trash. You don’t ever want to use that. It’s just or you know you don’t you don’t want to do a course by that person right. They then use this negative attack language and for one maybe that person to ask him because they’re currently using that other thing. And how does somebody feel if you tell them that they’re using a piece of crap that they were they bought into a piece of garbage they were so gullible that they thought Oh my God. That piece of garbage was good. So that’s one thing and to you know why people have such a bad taste in their mouth already from things like political attack ads and stuff like that we just don’t need any more negative mudslinging. Exactly. So what I like to do is I like to use subtext instead of saying well I’m going to use my competitor’s thing. It’s a piece of garbage blah blah blah. You are saying you know what. Honestly, there’s a lot of options out there. Of course, you know that you know mine isn’t the only course or mine isn’t the only software out there.

Tim Paige: [00:49:14] And you know you could give that other one a try. Here’s what I’d encourage you to do is that we know we’re really confident in ours. Most companies have some kind of a money back guarantee. What if you tried both men just stick with the one that works for you. OK, now that’s scary. Right. People. Wait a minute wait a minute. But then what if they go do that and then they like the competitors. What what do they do that. Right, that’s the same person that might try yours and decide it’s not for them or decide well you know what I want to try this other one to see if that works. They try yours cancel and do the other one. But what really happens when you do that is you go wow you’re really confident I’ll just use yours. Huh. It’s really weird it’s happening all the time. And all you do is you just use a little bit of subtext when you’re talking about the competitor’s product you’re just giving it a little bit of you could use that it might work or you could use ours and see this philosophy that we’ve talked about today in action. It’s just a tiny bit of like you’re hearing in my voice. The other one could work for you. Yeah, but what we’ve talked about today is clearly the right option.

Lea Pica: [00:50:20] And do you ever contrast different features or benefits when people ask that question?

Tim Paige: [00:50:26] You can if they’re asking for really specific things. But what I like to do is I like to preface it by saying Now, of course, we want to know about our competitors and what the other options are on the market. But I’m not an expert in those things. But here’s what I can show you what’s great about what we have to offer and why I think ours is a little bit different. It’s never trashing on the other options right. It’s never saying well their product doesn’t do this. It’s our product. Does this where you may not find that in other tools.

Lea Pica: [00:50:58] Got it. Wow, this is so fascinating.

Lea Pica: [00:51:03] And any anything around like the way people speak their articulation their energy level their enunciation is. Are there any resources anything that helps you master your voice I guess.

Tim Paige: [00:51:19] Yeah. You know I think one of the big things is it’s going to be different for everybody. So for me, I actually had a really I had a problem with addiction being too strong. I was it was very much I was very emphasized every single thing and it was so crystal clear that it really sounded like I was just being over the top and it was kind of annoying. So I had to tone it down and just relax and talk like I normally talked. Like I walked around talking like that. But I got into presentation mode and I was going to be very clear if I was speaking to my college journalism class. Right. So but for other people, you can’t understand a word they’re saying. And so it’s kind of one of those things we have to get a sense of who you are and find that middle ground if your audience is going to expect a certain thing. If your audience is really chill and laid back then you know maybe you want to match that. There’s no one size fits all. If you’re speaking to you know lawyers or high-level professionals you want to be a little bit more professional or maybe you’re standing out by being a little bit different and being yourself. That’s unique because I’ve given presentations to Fortune 500 CEOs on a webinar and come on I’m surrounded by comic books here.

Tim Paige: [00:52:37] I mean I’ll be able to see it but you can hear it and it’s I’m a big nerd and I’m not a Fortune 500 CEO and I’m a little rough around the edges. And so I do what I do and I’ve got a lot of great feedback that people were like God. I felt like a human being instead of a guy in a suit. You know there was trying to be sold to so again I would say to know your audience and know yourself it sounds a little woo-woo but doesn’t be afraid to just be who you are. And people are going to have to accept it or not because you can only play another character. You can’t be another character.

Lea Pica: [00:53:12] I’m so connecting with what you’re saying right now because I grew up on the Jersey Shore And also had to sort of de-program my accent when I started musical theater and then things became very formal and emphasized. And

Tim Paige: [00:53:30] Yes.

Lea Pica: [00:53:31] And I was noticing that on my podcast I was like Why do I sound like a Disney princess. Oh. Which is it? Which has been a lifelong dream? But I don’t think people are gonna connect with and even in my field especially it can be very stodgy can be very conventional and polished and I kind of you kind of want to be that little bit of a rebel who’s letting the Jersey Shore come back so I’m trying not to be so hard on myself. Yeah. If I hear that come back because I do want people to hear that I’m a real person that they can relate to I think for me what’s worked so well either with speaking is that sometimes people have come up to me and been like I don’t know if I can come talk to you it’s a little surreal being here with you and I’m like What are you talking about. I’m just yeah I’m a giant goob. But I think they feel the ability to do that because I try to create a sense of approachability and relatability. I was like I’m you guys, I just have a podcast. It’s awful.

Tim Paige: [00:54:37] That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. That that real nice that you know ability to make mistakes. Being Human. I mean you know there’s I don’t think there’s a lot of people that are on webinars that are expecting their host to make zero mistakes to save everything perfectly to never trip over their words to never lose their train of thought. There are some people like that and whatever they’re not your customers. I’ll give an interesting kind of anecdote about that by my highest converting webinar of all time there were there was a lot that was just a mess. This particular webinar my office was under construction we had just bought the house so I was hosting this webinar from my walk-in closet

Tim Paige: [00:55:23] You know clothes all over the place. I had hung up curtains to try to stop the reflections from bouncing off the walls and making it sound bad. It was OK. So it was a mess. And then four minutes into the webinar I got the worst case of hiccups I’ve ever had in my life. And I had a 90-minute webinar to present and I’m not talking little hiccups. I was talking, it sounds like I’m emphasizing for the sake of the story I’m really not. It was ridiculous and I tried for a couple of minutes thinking it’ll go away. You know there’s just take it’s not a big deal is going to go away. And of course five minutes later it’s still going. So I stopped and I said OK folks listen I know that you’re hearing these ridiculous hiccups and it’s probably the most obnoxious thing you’ve ever heard in your entire life. And if it was me I’m not sure I would stick around on the webinar so if you want to jump off I will totally understand. But if you stick around I will do my best to get you the best content I can and help you in the best way I can do. And a few people left but most of the people stayed and we got a 50 percent conversion rate on my iPod.

Lea Pica: [00:56:39] Amazing.

Tim Paige: [00:56:40] People were typing. Hashtag hiccup webinar. It became this whole thing because I was just I was real and I was doing my best and people were like that’s got to suck like people they got it. They knew how much that that was a thing. I mean I’ve done webinars with the flu. I’ve done the webinars with laryngitis you know and I’m not saying necessarily to just go do all those things. My point is that that realness that ability to be human makes people not only kind of it endears you to them but it also makes them understand that you’re just a person. And yeah you’ve got a thing for sale but it’s because you believe it will help them. They trust you more when you say look there are other options on the market and I’m going to tell you about my offer up front and I’m going to be really transparent with you and I’m not feeling on top of my game today because I’m sick. But I wanted to help you anyway or I’m a little bit you know discombobulated because my Syracuse Orange basketball team is playing a game right now and I’m thinking about that but I’m here with you. I’m doing these things so I can help you right whatever that thing is as real and honest and open and you as you can be. It’s what’s going to make more of a difference than any little sales tactic that you can do because it will make people want to buy from you because they like you along with whatever result you’re trying to help them get.

Lea Pica: [00:57:59] That is an amazing story. And you know what something else pops out for me. They’re not just the realness and relatability but the greatest archetypal story that I think resonates with all audiences whether it’s a presentation or watching Game of Thrones or whatever is that hero overcoming any odds to reach his victory. And I think that you created. A sort of hero situation for yourself where your tenacity and resilience and you’re kind of self-effacing fun that you were having with your subway guy gloves. Guys like you were crumbling under that pressure you were overcoming. And people want to buy from people that are resilient and overcome obstacles because they feel that that’s a guide for overcoming their own obstacles.

Tim Paige: [00:58:53] Right. That’s exactly it. Yeah. They feel that’s me. I’m the one that mumbles through my words I’m the one that loses my train of thought I’m the one that gets the hiccups and is like what do I do now. Right. They can always they can relate to that more easily than they can relate to the perfect business person. That doesn’t make any mistakes that gives this amazing presentation from start to that’s not most of us by most of us are not perfect.

Lea Pica: [00:59:22] So you’re giving me a lot to think about even with my own presentations because as a musical with a musical theater background polish is important to me. So whenever you know I have often used this script only for webinars because I’ve written them in a very conversational way that feels as natural as it gets. But that by no means am I saying it wouldn’t come off as written and even and even putting like quick notes and speaker notes because part of it is you don’t want to forget certain things. Yeah. Points. Right. But you’re making me realize that there might be some value in me being a little less polished and I don’t know what I’ve been starting to do with that recently with presentations is I have had some of the worst travel debacles getting to my three blizzards this year have stopped have canceled my flights and stopped me from getting to my presentations on time. But I go on there and I’m like man I have a story.

Lea Pica: [01:00:20] We’re talking about telling stories. I got the story for you or how I you know when I planned my own travel I landed in Duluth Minnesota instead of Minneapolis and ended up taking a three hour Uber through farmland. I am like trying to poke holes in that veneer of and here I think is really important. So I love that I love the idea of just kind of letting if something goes wrong like letting that hang out and just overcoming.

Tim Paige: [01:00:50] Yeah. You can kind of assume it’s gonna happen something’s gonna go wrong. You’re going to lose your internet. You know you’re your slides aren’t going to trend transfer like. Something is going to go wrong. And so you can hope for everything to be perfect or expect everything to be perfect and not be prepared or you can just go with the flow or you can just make those mistakes and be real and allow that to happen and not destroy what you’re doing now I still get a little nervous sometimes I mean worse. Good. I’ve had literally I’ve started the pitch and have my internet go down. Right. Now and I’m like What can I do. What can I do I have a backup little thing that I hooked up and got back on and everything was fine and we lost if you read what you just said you just do what you gotta do and one thing I would say for you is you know if you feel connected to doing a script and you’re not alone there are a lot of people I haven’t been able to convince to go. But what I’d encourage you to do is build in spots in your script to take a break from the script to go to whether it’s you know if it’s a live webinar to go to the questions to go to the chat to respond to some people or to go off the cuff and one them one of the scariest things you can do and I’ve had a few people do this that loved it and a few that hated it is get to a point you know in that in that script and say tell a story you’ve never told say that to yourself Oh now you’ve got to move right there on the spot tell a story and it’ll force you to do it. Now what one of them did they took it really for.

Lea Pica: [01:02:24] It is related to the webinar?

Tim Paige: [01:02:26] Did you really get to where they are at that point in the webinar. Got it. But one of the things that day they did was they were like Ok so here’s the thing. The person that’s helping me build my webinar told me that I should tell you a story that I’ve never told before and I can’t think of one if you told me a story about how what we just talked about could help your business or whatever was right and just. Forced this connection. Not in a way that feels forced but was just like look I want to connect to me I’m a real person I want you to know that and I want to help you. So again I’m not necessarily saying that’s the thing to do but if you can find ways to build in opportunities for interaction for spontaneity it can really change the feeling of the webinar.

Lea Pica: [01:03:07] I love it so much and building in breaks is definitely something I’m going to think about and pulling a story I haven’t told. Because that’s what I teach. Tell him those stories right. And you know what I just realized that another topic for this because it appeals to my analyst’s prodder. Like what are the metrics that you look at to determine your Success rate. Right.

Tim Paige: [01:03:31] So let’s talk about it. Can I tell you my least favorite metric

Lea Pica: [01:03:34] Is it conversion?

Tim Paige: [01:03:35] It’s the conversion rate. I hate the conversion rate. It’s such a bad metric for webinars. It’s so bad because it can change based on a million different things and it’s so impossible to know what that means. My favorite metric is either revenue per attendee or revenue per registrant. Now if you’re getting leads it’s a little different. If you’re getting MQL’s it takes a long time to track that but you can still track that and use it. It’s just going to take a while. If you’ve got a long sales cycle obviously measure the sales cycle find out how long it is and then track it back to revenue per attendee or registering two different numbers though revenue per registrant is going to tell you what you can spend to get people on your webinars. So if you track it and you say you’re out you’re getting 50 bucks a registrant then you know you can spend up to maybe 50 bucks if you just want to leave. Yeah right. That’s a good one revenue per attendees is going to tell you how well you’re doing live on the spot and how it’s going to show you how important that follow up is. So those are my favorites.

Lea Pica: [01:04:43] Oh man. So good. And what about in terms. Do you ever look at the behavioral metrics during your webinars like where the key dropoff needs points where people comment the most like attendance starting it versus ending things like that?

Tim Paige: [01:05:01] Yes. I think it’s really important to track where that offer comes in. Are people dropping off like crazy? And if they are you’ve got to try my tactics. It’s so important. You’ve got to try the offer at the beginning because we used to see you know it’d be consistent they’d beyond they’d be on and then it would drop pretty significantly then we would see it be consistent and would drop a little bit but then it’s day. So. I definitely would encourage you to track that and find out are people dropping off at that point or is there a point the webinar where they’re dropping off and a lot of people think if they drop off right in the middle of the webinar it’s because either the webinars too long or something like that or that the content is boring or not valuable. Right. Usually, it’s actually because it’s too complex. So when you’re presenting on a webinar. Sorry to say it most people aren’t giving you their undivided attention. Well I mean I know it’s unbelievable. They’re on their phone they’re talking to somebody in the office whatever writing a final tab open on their chrome. That’s exactly right. It’s in the background. So. Oftentimes if it’s too complex if it’s too much data if it’s too whatever. That’s when people are going to drop off. I can’t follow this. It’s over my head or it’s not relevant. So you know maybe take that section out or dumb it down a little bit makes it a little easier to comprehend and again give them the ability to take that and apply it when they buy your product that can make a big difference.

Lea Pica: [01:06:27] I love all of that and I think it’s just really important to look at the webinar itself as a behavioral vehicle to monitor what’s happening during that. I remember a webinar I did and I noticed a pretty significant drop off at one point and I realized that it had been a long time since I had asked a question. It was like one of the longer content stretches that I had. And you’re right people will just. And it’s also tricky because people will often leave it running but. There’s no way to measure that attention span. But I think the more you’re offering those opportunities for people to contribute comments and weigh in your kind of snap. It’s like being in a classroom you’re like to me in the back. Would you like? It and you’re like oh great right. It kind of snaps you back to attention.

Tim Paige: [01:07:20] And one attention technique that I will use is I will ask the audience to become the teachers for just a minute. What I’ll do is if there is a particular thing. So it’s a teaching about social media and I’m talking about Instagram how to use Instagram Stories. All right. This is something I did at a recent webinar and it’s a real sore spot for people because people hate or love Instagram Stories. That’s really what it comes down to. I just nobody ever saw that right. Yeah, they’re either like all about them or not and they don’t get them. So what I what I would do is I would take I would give some great tips or whatever I’m teaching in the webinar and then I’d say by the way what’s one great way that you’ve used Instagram Stories. Can you let us know and I’ll read some of them out loud so people can kind of share in that knowledge and people love that? I mean come on we love feeling like we’re awesome where the experts like yeah I’m awesome too. So good idea so we’ll share that stuff and will engage and then again the audience feels like whoa here’s the validation that this is important because not only is the presenter talking about it but all the people with us are talking about it too right.

Lea Pica: [01:08:28] Yes. It’s also how it’s baffled me in social media communities where. We’re working on building a couple and I’m trying to nail that post that gets tons of engagement. Yeah. And what happens every time that I’m seeing is when you post that question that’s that dare to be great share that I have the kind of brag you know the day or a question saying I need help with something I need your advice. People just go bananas. All right. So nice. So maybe even asking like well something I’ve struggled with is this and I love you. Guys I’ve never been able to figure this out. How would you tackle yes like this?

Tim Paige: [01:09:13] Yes. And again people get so afraid to do that because they feel like they have to be the perfect expert. They’re the experts so they know everything. No, you don’t know everything. People know you don’t know everything. So you can then not the only kind of connect with people in that way and be like you know I’ve been struggling with something what’s one way that you’ve been able to do that. I’d love to learn from you and increase their engagement and their likelihood to be paying attention at that point which then keeps them on until the offer. That’s great that’s a great one.

Lea Pica: [01:09:41] Oh man so many bonuses. See you made it to the end. You got some bonus.

Tim Paige: [01:09:46] Bonus content.

Lea Pica: [01:09:49] So we’re almost out of time but I wanted to ask you one last question. So this is a very plausible scenario because you are hosting a panel at Comic-Con 2019 when suddenly a vortex pulls you back to the moment you’re about to deliver your first webinar. What would present day you say yesterday.

Tim Paige: [01:10:14] Have fun. I think that I was so nervous I was so nervous. I’d never done it before. I didn’t know what I was getting myself into. I had watched it. I tried so hard to say all the things Clay said. And although it went really well and it converted really well. I was like peeing my pants the whole time not literally. I was not literally. Having people say that but. You know I think that the best webinars I ever had including hiccup webinar were just the ones that I was having the most fun and I wasn’t afraid to just be myself and do stupid stuff and say stupid stuff and fall flat on my face. And I think that’s what I would tell myself because that changed the game for me more than anything.

Lea Pica: [01:11:05] And I think it’s amazing that you’re able to do that because when you’re in a live presentation environment your audience reaction is feeding into that energy you’re there. You drop that first joke which you use to gauge where they are and they laugh and you’re like Oh we’re on a roll now and then it just snowballs from there. But you don’t have that ability on our Web and arts. Total silence.

Tim Paige: [01:11:29] And and you know sometimes I’ll watch the chat to see what’s going on our people making comments about that joke. And I’ve had webinars where people were not responding. I was making joke after joke and it’s all one point. I would just say man I’m dropping all these jokes and you guys aren’t laughing I don’t know I’m just not funny or what. And again it sounds so counterintuitive like don’t do that and maybe don’t do that. But for me, that’s who I am. I’m going to call out my own like I’m being an idiot I’m clearly not funny. And people were like No no no we’re just busy writing notes and I’m OK. All right I guess I’ll keep going and I stubbornness to drive just ha. Just please every once in a while a little L’Oréal would make me feel a lot better about myself. Oh, that’s great. I love that.

Lea Pica: [01:12:14] I definitely take a page from that book. Well, Tim, I feel like I would keep you hostage pretty much all day. I had such an honor to have you on, especially the journey that your amazing service to the community has given as it is an entrepreneur but also hopefully giving some amazing insights into the steps that people can take to create webinars that really show people what their service what that value is going to be for them. And I’m just so grateful. So please let people know where they can keep up with you.

Tim Paige: [01:12:52] Yeah well thanks for having me on this was a lot of fun. I don’t talk about webinars as much nowadays but yeah if you want to find some resources I’ve got a little bit on timpaigewebinars.com. A lot of my time now is spent doing voice acting I do some webinar stuff a bit but I’ve got to check out my voice acting stuff if you like audiobooks. I narrated a lot of audiobooks so it’s narratedbytimepaige.com. I g p and I’m doing we’re not turning the page. We’re turning the page and then my other voice acting stuff is thevoiceoftimpaige.com and.

Lea Pica: [01:13:29] I mean there are so many articles I was reading on yesterday that blog post that you’ve contributed to all kinds of blogs that have their stuff everywhere and yeah information. Well, awesome thank you again. I’m wishing you all the best in all of your endeavors. I’ll be downloading every audiobook you’ve ever narrated. And I just wish you the best and I hope one day we can have you again.

Tim Paige: [01:13:54] Yeah for sure. Thank you for having me.

Lea Pica: [01:14:01] Oh my gosh I’m just so blessed that someone that was so important and such a prominent figure and how my online business developed actually came on my show and was able to drop so much valuable knowledge for you. So blessed so I hope he didn’t disappoint. Thank you so much for listening. Until you catch all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode. Don’t forget to visit the show notes page at Leapica.com/043. I would love if you could leave me or Tim a comment or suggestions because I want to hear about the challenges you face when you’re presenting webinars or trying to close deals through the Web.

Lea is a digital analyst and marketer turned Data Storytelling Evangelist. She trains thousands of digital practitioners and consultants in the art and science of impactful data presentation through her blog and podcast, The Present Beyond Measure Show. Lea is also the creator of The PICA Protocol™, her practical prescription for healthy, actionable data stories that inform decisions, spark ideas, inspire action, and make YOU indispensable.