Data Presentation + Storytelling Course Case Study with John Reinesch

Present Beyond Measure Ep. 046

Getting Results by Presenting Results Effectively

The Data Presentation + Storytelling Bootcamp online course is open for enrollment this week only! Cart closes August 22nd at midnight.

And in honor of the Bootcamp launch, I am excited to introduce you to my guest today.

John Reinesch is a highly experienced digital marketing strategist and consultant with special expertise in developing SEO campaigns, PPC campaigns, and web analytics implementation.

His passion for growing business by improving their customer acquisition with creative approaches along with thorough research and analysis. He works as a Senior Manager of SEO and Analytics at Beacon Digital and also does his own work as an Independent Contractor focusing on search and analytics for many different industries. 

Not only is he a superstar in the digital marketing arena, but he was also one of the first students of my online training.

I brought him on the show because he made some amazing inroads with his client retention and satisfaction following my training.

He also had some valuable feedback for practitioners in how to implement the learning concepts to move the needle with his clients, which gave me lots of ideas for future training!

After getting feedback that people felt limited by the one-time schedule of the Live class, I decided this valuable training should be offered to people at their own pace.

I divvied up my flagship private workshop into four different courses. There are over forty 5-10 minute, easy-to-digest video modules, resources, printable checklists, and exercises.

The courses are super comprehensive and super practical. All of it is backed up in the best practices in neuroscience and cinematic storytelling principles I use in my career every day.

For this episode, I invited John to come and discuss my Data Presentation + Storytelling Bootcamp course.

He shares valuable insight into how he used this training to improve his client relationships and stabilize his retention. And he even gave me some fresh ideas for resources to add.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn…

  • How John’s love of SEO started with a YouTube video.
  • The emphasis he places on not just sharing information with his clients, but making it actionable as well.
  • How my course helped him shift his reports to help his clients understand the data.
  • His favorite checklist from my course, and his dream checklist.
  • The improvements he has seen with his clients and how his clients are now able to use the data more efficiently.
  • John’s goals over the next year.

ENROLL IN THE BOOTCAMP

How to Keep Up with John:

Other Resources:

Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining me. Have some feedback you’d like to share, or a question for John? Leave a note in the comments below, and we’ll get back to you!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the left of the post.

If you liked what you heard, I would love if you could leave me a rating or review in iTunes. Ratings & reviews are extremely appreciated and very important in the rankings algorithm. The more ratings, the better chance of fellow practitioners getting to hear this helpful information!

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes to get automatic updates and never miss a show.

A very, very special thank you to John for joining me this week. And as always, viz responsibly, my friends.

Do you have a burning question for John about digital analytics or SEO?

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Lea Pica: Guten Morgen, Lea Pica here. Today’s guest is a digital analytics consultant, a case study of mine, who is here to tell his data story for success. Stay tuned to find out who is hitting home runs on the Present Beyond Measure Show Episode 46.

Lea Pica: Welcome to the forty-sixth episode of the Present Beyond Measure Show. The only podcast at the intersection of presentation, data visualization, and analytics. This is the place to be if you’re ready to make maximum impact and create credibility through thoughtfully presented insights. And today you are here either because you enjoy my silly banter in the beginning, or you are ready to supercharge the impact you create when presenting your ideas and insights.

Lea Pica: Or maybe a little bit of both. So today’s episode is a little different. It’s helping give birth to my biggest baby yet. No, not my oversized son. It is the relaunch of my Data Presentation + Storytelling Bootcamp, a comprehensive, immersive online course.

Lea Pica: That is the course I wish existed when I started out presenting data as a digital marketer 15 years ago. Originally relaunched as a virtual web class, I got lots of feedback that as much as people wanted to join, they felt limited by the one time schedule of the live class. So I decided that you having this valuable training at your fingertips, being able to learn at your convenience and at your speed was the solution I was looking for. So I’ve divvied up my flagship private workshop into four chunkable courses. They are packed with over 50 five to ten easy, digestible video modules, tons of resources, printable checklists, exercises, all the bells and whistles I could possibly think of. It is super comprehensive, super practical, and it’s based on the best practices of neuroscience and cinematic storytelling principles that I use in my professional career as a pro speaker every single day.

Lea Pica: You can buy the courses separately. However, I’m offering a very special bundle price for all of the courses together because I believe that this whole far outweighs the sum of its parts and this is the lowest price that you’re ever going to be able to get this bundle. So be one of the first to empower yourself with this training.

Lea Pica: And on top of just the training itself, I’m going to be able to offer enterprise pricing for group discounts. People with teams and you’re going to get community. So I’m creating a private select channel for all of the participants where we can share our work. Ask questions and I’ll be holding personal office hours where you can ask me any question you need directly. And that is lifetime access. So if you want to keep your audience engaged and inspire action with your insights, visit leapica.com/bootcamp right now and be one of the first to sign up.

Lea Pica: Now, in that theme, I am, as usual, very excited to bring on today’s guest because he was one of my first students to take the live web class version of this online course. He had really insightful things to say about how he used this training to improve his client relationships and stabilize his retention. And he even gave me some fresh ideas for resources to add. So we had a total blast during our Facebook live interview on my data storyteller page. And I can’t wait to share his story with you now. Here we go.

Lea Pica: Hello and welcome to a very special live interview with someone who I have gotten to know a little bit in the last year. And I’m really, really excited to bring on into the data storyteller page Facebook Live. So as you might have seen, I have a very important announcement. I am going to be launching in 10 days an online course version of my private workshop and web class, the data Storytelling, and Presentation Bootcamp. And the reason why I wanted to bring on today’s guest. His name is John Reinesch and he is an SEO and digital analytics consultant. And he helps marketing agencies and various brands just do marketing a lot better. And I’ll let him speak to that more. But I brought him on because he was actually one of my first class students. And he had some really, really interesting things to say about the decision to invest in a training like this. And also, he had some really interesting findings of what happened after he invested that training. And I just thought it would be great to bring him on today and help him answer some of the questions that you might have about investing in a training like this. And also, what just how do you just do communicating data well to clients and how do you keep them coming back for more? So welcome, John. Thanks so much for joining me today.

John Reinesch: Absolutely. Looking forward to this.

Lea Pica: Great. So first, you know, talk about what it is you do, the kinds of people you serve and what kinds of data do you work with and how do you present it?

John Reinesch: Yes, I’m good. So I focus primarily on SEO and paid search. I work for a B2B digital marketing agency called Beacon Digital Marketing. And I also have a consulting business where my good friend, Bronco, where we really focus on just search and analytics and our clients range across the board and all different industries. And as far as data. Yeah, we everything we do is really we try to be really grounded in data and really make our decisions based on what we’re seeing rather than just going based on a good template, a strategy. We really, really like to be really prescriptive and really use data to figure out the best way to maximize our campaigns that we’re running. So that’s really central to pretty much everything we do for both the agency and my consulting business.

Lea Pica: Oh, cool. Awesome. So how did you fall into this gig? Like was it sort of immediately was it a winding path? I’m always curious about people’s origin stories.

John Reinesch: Yeah. Marketing everyone always has different stories on how they got into this is interesting. Yeah. For me, I was just working in retail in college and trying to find something to do. I don’t really know what I wanted to do. And I stumbled on a couple of videos on YouTube, actually on SEO. And ever since then, I just kind of got hooked on it and started working on my own websites, then took a job for an agency locally and then from there really started to grow my own business, on getting my own clients and really focused on that over the past year and a half. That’s what I’ve been doing since then.

Lea Pica: Oh, nice. And as your career has sort of progressed and, you know, flowed, how did presenting information start to fit in into your role?

John Reinesch: Yeah. Pretty early on when I started out working for the first agency. The first experience I had with Google Analytics and reporting was just sending screenshots of a dashboard we had in there to clients as their monthly reporting, OK? And that’s all I really knew. And then that kind of led me to dig into it and really start diving into analytics and reporting and data more from there and realized like where the big gap was and how much more we really could be doing that we weren’t. And then from there, I really just started studying on my own, taking courses and really getting my hands on anything I could and then starting implementing that for my own clients. Anything I learned. I feel like that was key. It’s good to acquire information. But the key is really that use it and make it actionable. So you actually start to buy into what you’re doing. And that’s really what helped take me. I think that helped take my clients to another level from where we were when we started. That’s something I’m really big on, is really starting to implement things right away and take action rather than just kind of collecting information and sitting on it. So that’s been really been I can see that about you.

Lea Pica: I was amazed that you know, you really seem to grasp the concepts right away, but you also came back and showed that you were actively putting them into practice. And, you know, I’m a bit of a course junkie and personal growth junkie myself. And I know that something really has to stand out to me as valuable in order to really put it into practice because habits are really hard to break. So for you, you know, what was kind of the motivation to put that right away is that you kind of self-funded this learning journey for you as the consultant, you know, like what inspired you to take the step to invest in this?

John Reinesch: Yeah, I think the big thing was with on the consulting side, really trying to figure out how we can improve the relationship we have with clients. We have quite a few cases where I felt like everything was going really well. They were getting results with SEO. We were getting leads from paid search. We just weren’t displaying that to the client in a way that they understood. Everything seemed to be going perfect. And three months later, you get a notice that they’re canceling and it’s always the same story. They just didn’t understand the value we were providing. So to me, perceived value is almost more important than results. If you can display what you’re doing and how it’s actually helping and the impact it’s having to a client that’s really going to help client retention and building that relationship that ultimately lasts. With my business, I’m really into having a long term relationship with my clients. I know some people go through clients quickly. They’ll go for lower rates and they just want to almost that churn and burn style. But I really find getting clients on a better retainer, then a better relationship that you can do long term is really critical. Especially you want to focus all your time on sales if that’s not what you’re into.

Lea Pica: Oh, God. No, I can absolutely understand formulating a really rewarding, sustainable long term client relationship I see is a lot more valuable and sort of just a conveyor belt of ones that come in and don’t work out and go out. So Why do you think that your clients initially were not seeing or not perceiving the true value of the successes that you were clearly seeing that somehow they were missing it?

John Reinesch: Yeah, I think part of it was a lot of our reporting. I used to put too much in there. So a lot of it was just having too much data in there. That makes sense. But when appliances that they just see, you want a number of charts, they don’t know what they have. It means, right. So it was more and a lot of it was more focused on what happened rather than like here’s what we could be doing or here’s how we maximize what we’re doing. And that was a big shift after taking the course. There’s really a focus on not just what happened, but why did it happen and what can we do to actually continue to see growth in different channels that we’re working on and where are the opportunities?

John Reinesch: And then ultimately, here’s how we’re gonna act on it. Who’s going to actually do it as well? That’s often a step I feel like gets missed and that we were missing. Even when we did have some insights. Nothing actually ended up happening on it. It was just kind of sat there. Next month it was the same thing or slightly different. And this cycle that keeps repeating. So being able to actually start implementing some of our recommendations and how our clients buy into it as well with a really big focus for us and something that I really wanted to see improve. And it’s definitely been a big factor in seeing some growth of my own business.

Lea Pica: Oh, that’s so fantastic to hear, because, after so many years as an analyst, I just know that you put in the time to do the presentation and I guess you get paid for that time. But for me, the real intrinsic value of the role that I was playing was actually creating that incremental lift of action within people. And it can feel so frustrating when you’re like, guys. It’s right in front of you. How do you not get it? But it’s in a bucket of 100 other numbers. I don’t know why you don’t see it but. What do you think in terms of the “too much”. So I’m so glad that you picked that up, because that’s a big focus of changing the habits that we have around what I call the kitchen sink presentation, where you take every number you have available in G.A. or whatever tool, Adobe, and dropping them in there, hoping one of them sticks. Well, you had talked about earlier to me about a specific example of you when you kind of had like a before and after process with one particular client. So I’d love for you to talk through in that particular scenario. What did backing off too much look like? How did you focus on what ultimately mattered?

John Reinesch: Yeah. So one of the things specifically that I’ve been working on with a good friend of mine, Bronco, on our consulting business is we do these three month sprints that we sign clients on for where it basically is, it’s a way for both of us and the client to try each other out and see how the relationship works. But also it’s a way for us to prove what we can do and the value we bring. So one of the big things is that really helped us sign on clients long term. Since then, was doing a wrap-up report where we really dig into here are all the topics that we did. Here’s exactly what we did. Here’s what we saw and then here’s our recommendation plan over the next six months. And then the exact details on how we’re gonna do it, that really that report and really simplifying that. I think prior to taking this course, I probably would add and throw every metric I had at them. And then try to figure out that if something comes up, to be prepared. But really, one thing that I really learned is really simplicity is key to make something really stick and for someone to understand it, that’s really been key. We signed on lots of clients from these sprints where prior to that we were having some trouble. After we do the three months, some clients weren’t renewing.

John Reinesch: So that was another reason why I really want to take this course to figure out how can we kinda almost use this as a sales tool even to actually get clients and get them on a longer-term. Month to month agreement where we can actually have more success and more contributing to their campaigns. And that report really had a big impact on that. And I think I think the big reason was really focused that on what we can do next and how we’re going to continuously grow and a lot of it when we actually made the report. It looks simple. There were just a few charts in some of these, but the impact was so much more than when I used to just put every number I could on those. Just because I was always thinking if we have a question, I want to make sure I have everything there. But with a lot of it, if it’s simple enough for them to understand the questions are more proactive and about things that we can actually do and what should we do next rather than like what does this number mean or what does that mean? And I think that’s been a big reason why we’re getting some of these long term clients out.

Lea Pica: Oh, my gosh. I think I actually remember you commenting during the first session that you’re like, oh, my God, I’ve been putting way too much in here.

John Reinesch: We had to redo all of our data templates after that.

Lea Pica: Sorry. No, but I mean, you know, and you know what else is amazing about that? I love this whole story. And about this rapid report, I love especially that you’re actually using it as a sales closing tool because there’s no question the entire initial framework, which is taught in the first phase is based on a persuasion model. It was based on a model that was designed to secure venture capital funding for startups. So I thought, well, what better kind of spirit to apply because we are selling our insights even if we’re not losing clients. We are trying to sell essentially and sell our own intrinsic value too. Right. But yeah, I love that because also if the less that you have in there, the less that you have to explain. If they don’t get it right, it has a side benefit there.

John Reinesch: And with that, a lot of times I would think clients would think we’re not really putting in time on the reporter that had less, but it actually takes almost more insight and more time to actually really craft something that that kind of tells a story and just has what they need to see rather than just throwing everything in there, which looks like you did a lot. But really, you’re just throwing numbers on a page and you’re not really. No one’s really getting anything out of it. So that’s been a big shift for me. I’m really focusing in on that.

Lea Pica: That’s fantastic. And you’re so right. It is so much harder to pull together a single focused presentation that really ties to one major idea than just the laundry list. But what I really appreciate is that you weren’t afraid to go head-on into that process because sometimes I experienced resistance like, oh, I don’t need this to be harder. I want this to be easier, you know? And obviously, through productivity tools and time savers, I tried to incorporate ways of making things easier. But what we’re doing this well as you said, really requires is a commitment to understanding that it might be harder in the beginning.

John Reinesch: And I think with that. Yeah. The initial work on revamping reports, templates and things like that, that takes time and resource is also good practice to actually start applying some of this stuff right away when you start revamping some of those things. And the checklist there’s one of the things I like about the course is that there’s a lot of checklists that actually let you pretty much go step by step on how to improve your reporting process and things like that. So that’s been really big because not only can I use that, I can give that to team members. So we’re all on the same page. We’re all following the same process, which if you run an agency or consulting business, you really know the process is everything. Yeah, it really matters. Sometimes what you do if you’re trying to scale, you really have to have a process in place that really anyone can follow. And so it’s repeatable. That’s one of the things that you’re going to get out of. This really is getting the actual checklist that you can use right away and actually start to implement it rather than just a bunch of theory and which is good. You need that but actually, be implemented and run with it. I think that’s been big.

Lea Pica: Oh, my gosh. I appreciate you saying that so much because the entire goal of this training was to combine that inspirational light a fire under you theoretical stuff, but also be like, what the hell do I actually do now? Like, I’m going to sit down. What do I do? And I appreciate that so much, especially sharing that so that you can have a consistent process and workflow, because that will also mean that your clients can come to expect something consistent and they can begin to rely on being able to extract that value from your company’s reporting, you know, as a whole. So, so great. If you had one checklist that was missing and you could like wave a magic wand. Will you be like your dream checklist now?

John Reinesch: That’s a good question. I think I’ll start with one of the ones I really like the chart detox that has been really big. Really just simplifying charts and really making them more impactful at just that chart level, not outside the report. That’s been big. So anything with that. I feel like that’s also been great for new team members who we have working on reports that may not be as familiar with some of the things that you go over there. So a lot of times I see that even I was doing this to building out charts that they just don’t look right. Is grid lines. There are just all sorts of confusion on them. Really simplifying them has been really big for the reporters and just clients. They notice that thing, too. And when they see the whole visual presentation of the report as well, it makes it really a big impact. So if there’s anything else that can be built on that aspect, I think that’s huge. I think we’re getting more and more detoxing. I think anything also with helping new employees or new team members, we’re just getting into reporting, onboarding. Yeah. To get almost a standard operating procedure kind of thing where we can actually implement this across our agency or consulting side with different freelancers. We work with things like that just anything to get people on the same page.

Lea Pica: Interesting. Well, in this in the course, I’m expanding on a lot of the content because with the web class you took, I was confined to only four hours. And with the course, I’m putting as much as I want in there because everything’s being taken at your own leisure. So one of the things I was considering was expanding out like chart detoxes for different platforms. And this is giving me a pretty interesting idea about like, oh, something called a presentation style guide where you capture all the fonts that you’re using, how data should look, how accepting data should look, how numbers should be formatted. Everything is kind of like encapsulated in one piece, so kind of like a branding guideline, but taken to the next level to show how data would be handled as well. So that could be something really interesting for you guys, too. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So now that you started to use a lot of these principles other than, you know, like live presentations, which is pretty much what this is mainly geared towards that environment. Have you found that this has helped spill over into other kinds of deliverables that you have to send out?

John Reinesch: Yeah. So I actually do a lot of on the SEO side, things like technical audits and content audit where it’s less focused on a report and more focused on digging into a website’s history. What’s going on? How can we improve it? And we actually have a presentation that I’ve been giving for that client that we completed. I usually do it in a spreadsheet and for a while, I would just send in the spreadsheet over. And that obviously is really technical. Clients never really understand anything in there. But I applied a lot of principles into the reporting aspect into actually delivering a presentation on a technical audit. So now when I go through what a client actually have a deck that we go through, we’re not really even looking at the spreadsheet at all. They want the data. It’s there, but it’s much, much more digestible and clients are really understanding it. Even if they’re not familiar with SEO, a lot of the clients I work with at the agency Beacon Digital Marketing, our B2B software companies and different companies like that and they marketing teams that we’re presenting to so that they typically don’t have someone who’s too familiar with SEO. So sending a spreadsheet with all these technical things in it really just doesn’t do anything. It just sits there and none of these changes are made. But giving the presentation and applying a lot of the data storytelling aspect of it into a technical SEO audit, really, I feel like help separate the audits that we’re doing from a lot of other companies out there. And really it’s the impact of it now. Every time we do on clients, I’ve really positive stuff to say that our client’s success team, they understand it and we actually know they’ll sign us on to make the changes and implement them or they actually get their developing team to do them. So that’s been another big thing that I think they didn’t realize they’d be able to use the course for. But it actually spilled over. Almost every deliverable you do for a client that you’re presenting. You can really apply a lot of this stuff too.

Lea Pica: Oh, yay. I didn’t even think of that. I didn’t even think of, you know, because there are a lot of very fundamental design principles included in there that anyone who has to create a word document I feel should be empowered with some of that stuff. So it didn’t even really occur to me that it could influence so many other outputs like that. That’s really great to hear. So now I want to talk about some of the challenges. Some of my students experience cultural blockages to implementing some of these new practices because the clients might say, well, I don’t like this, I don’t like something about this. But. They also don’t like change. So just curious to hear what your experience was in implementing the changes from the receiver side.

John Reinesch: Yeah, I feel like that that’s the big thing. Clients old times don’t like to change their use for something that’s not even clients just request a bunch of metrics that don’t really mean anything. A lot of times as well. But so there was obviously a little resistance at first going to a new reporting format. But what I really like is it quickly went away once we actually dug into it and really focused on outcomes rather than just historical data. What happened almost across the board there was complete buy into it, which was great. Great. We’re not getting as many requests to send random metrics over, which is always good as well. So it’s more like they see the report. They don’t need to see any more. They understand what our recommendations are. And then we just keep moving forward and keep it really collaborative and constructive rather than just getting hung up on certain numbers in a report. The other thing, too, is really we’ve been focusing on not just painting the picture that everything’s always going well, but really digging into when things aren’t going well.

John Reinesch: What’s our plan to actually improve? And here’s what we’re recommending. Rather than trying to hide that or manipulate, not manipulate, but make things look a certain way. It’s actually when you dig into what’s going wrong and clients see that you’re really actively trying to fix it or trying to improve. That’s another thing that really helps retention and building that trust with the client that you really are looking to help grow their business. That’s been really big. For every time we do a report, we see something’s not working. We’ll call it out and we’ll have a list of recommendations on here. How here’s how we can actually start to improve or here’s how we can we do a different channel. It could be a number of recommendations, but it all kind of lines up with the big picture of what we’re trying to show to clients that really we’re bringing a lot of value to them. Even if things aren’t going well, we’re going to fix that and we’re gonna be there to help keep moving them forward. So, yeah, so that’s been huge.

Lea Pica: Okay. I love what you just said there, which was, you know, even if things are not going well, you’re still proving your value. That I think is so huge because I think in a lot of ways we kind of show up to these readouts maybe once a month, once a week, and we just kind of regurgitate a number of numbers. And it’s either good news or bad news or math. And that’s the whole of the experience. But instead of trying to sugar coat bad news, which, you know, I don’t believe in, you know, a run away from it, I covered it. It’s about like taking it head-on and be like, yeah, this happened. But, you know, we have a job tomorrow and we are your partner and we wanted to get in. What I’m hoping is that this empowered you with a bit of more confidence to say, like, we know what we’re doing in this arena. We are your partner and we’re ready to help you dive in and move this forward with this around.

John Reinesch: Yeah. And that’s really what’s going to help you stand out, because most agencies, consultants and I were guilty of this for a while, too, is always want to show things going up in the right direction. Well, but you build so much more trust and a better relationship with the client when you were the one that actually tells them things that aren’t going well and things that you see what can be improved even if it’s something that you did. It also helps with getting more of a culture around testing and trying things out. So it doesn’t have to be like everything you do as a success where you really don’t know sometimes until you try something. So a lot of times you can get data and feedback on it. Maybe we need to adjust something or maybe we don’t do that tactic anymore. We try something else. So being able to display that to clients and not run away from it has been really big. I think the big reason why we’re really retaining our clients, which was our ultimate goal going into this.

Lea Pica: That’s gonna be such a fresh air for clients because you’re right, a lot of it is. No, let’s just make this look as good as possible. And, you know, I think what you said, retention in the midst of things not going that well, that I think is really a hallmark of how you’re really projecting your value, because I know there are clients that will bail the first minute that things seem to go bad and maybe promises were made or and whatnot. But I think that is just so fantastic because like a parent is supposedly like in the Russian culture, trust is built on total radical honesty, brutal honesty. And I think that you know, we’re a different culture still. Our radar goes up when we feel like we’re not getting the whole story. I think that client, any kind of stakeholder can be intuitive enough to pick up on that. So transparency is key.

John Reinesch: And I think one thing to add to that, to that I noticed a lot of the B2B clients I work with. Typically, I’m presenting to marketing teams the rest of their marketing and they’re going to present to their executive team. So one of the big things, when I started shifting and really adjusting our reporting, is they’re actually using it almost directly to present to their executive team where you have prior to that, they would maybe take bits and pieces of it and make their own report. So that’s the other thing. We’re making their lives easier. We’re making the kind of showing their value as well. But ultimately, with those type of clients, we’re there to make them look good. To their management. So that’s been big where they could actually take it. They understand it. So they could actually. They don’t need us there to go over it and they’re able to actually use it directly with whoever their leadership team is. So this is another thing that I think there’s another thing I didn’t think about going into this.

Lea Pica: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I’m just so like wrapped up in your story. Amazing stuff. So let’s see who are the kinds of practitioners that you would think could benefit from investing a training like this?

John Reinesch: Yeah, I think this has a lot of applications from people who are just solo consultants looking to grow that. People who own agency or work for an agency reporting is a big part of really anything you do, whether you do SEO, paid, search, social, whatever it is you do, you have to prove your value and show what you’re doing to really contribute to a client’s business. So really all aspects of consultant agencies and even if you’re on an internal team as well.

John Reinesch: I know I worked in-house for a software company for a little while and one of the big things there that was different from an agency is costly, like presenting to kind of the senior leadership team and getting them to buy into what’s been going on. A lot of times executive teams, they don’t really understand sometimes some of the tactics and some of the details of what we’re doing. But so showing value to them is a little bit different. And understanding that knows your audience to a degree while you’re actually presenting to is really important. So whether you’re on an internal team or an agency, you’re going to get a lot of value out of it.

Lea Pica: Oh, thank you. So thanks for mentioning that because of course, I didn’t say it. But I do want to make it clear this is not just for consultants or independent contractors. This is absolutely for anyone that presents data pretty much and catering to a digital audience. So I do. I appreciate so many, many of the angles that you’re bringing for this. So what do you think? What’s your big like pie in the sky? The goal as a digital practitioner in the next year or so for yourself?

John Reinesch: Yeah, I think for me right now, I really want to keep growing the consultants out of things that have been going really well and I really want to explore that further. And that’s something I’m really focusing a lot of time on now, building that out, getting clients, keeping them and really building that aspect of it. That’s been something I’m really focusing on. I really started that at the beginning of this year. So it’s been pretty fresh since focusing a lot of time there now. And that’s something I want to keep working on. I think for me in terms of what I actually like to do the best is really focusing on analytics, digging through data and getting those insights that really get someone to train and get someone to take action, I think is something I really like exploring and really like doing. And that’s something I want to keep investing my time into, whether that’s what more course is training and just doing that for clients to get the experience, I think is it’s been big and cool.

Lea Pica: Well, that sounds awesome. And hopefully, you know, whenever I come out with the rest of the year, I can help continue to support that mission. So now I we’ve come to our last question. I always ask this on my podcast, but I thought this would be cute to ask here, too. So think very hard about this plausible scenario. You are walking along in a park and you suddenly trip and fall into a vortex that pulls you back to the moment you’re about to give your first presentation. What does today you say to you yesterday you?

John Reinesch: That is a great question. I think that what I would say, probably a lot of things I could say, is just be confident in what you’re saying and understand that you know what you’re doing. And ultimately, they’re coming. People are looking to you to be an expert. So really be that and own that and understand that even if someone’s asking a question or if they’re kind of digging into what you’re doing, if you have a good answer and a good reason why you’re doing it, that’s ultimately what matters? People don’t really care too much on what you’re doing a lot of times if you know why you’re doing it and what impact is going to have focused on that and everything else, take care of itself from there.

Lea Pica: That’s great advice. I feel like I could publish a book from all the advice that I’ve gotten from people when I asked that question. I’d like to see that actually on this show. All right. OK. Well, unfortunately, our time has run out, but I really have to thank you. You actually made me think about different angles, the value of this training and how to actually put it into practice in so many ways. And if people want to connect with you, how can they do that?

John Reinesch: The best places you can buy me on LinkedIn. That’s where I’m in the most active. So you shoot me a message. I’ll get back to you guys. I go with a lot of templates and different things in Google Sheets to help automate a lot of SEO processes and things like that. So you’re entertaining those. It’s all for free. I don’t know. Sell any of those. So just shoot me a message and I’ll send them over.

Lea Pica: I was going to say, I don’t know if you saw my Google Sheets detox. I came out with I was wondering if you had seen that and I’ll shoot it over to you.

John Reinesch: Yeah, I saw you put a couple of articles to blogs. So I actually use a lot of that, too. I know.

Lea Pica: Nice. Well, I want to thank you so much again for joining me and super quick plug. The cart opens on the boot camp next Monday, the 15th. You can get on the waitlist now at leapica.com/bootcamp. It is going to have it’s a series, a bundle of courses that will probably have over 40 different video modules, courses, checklists, and a private slap community so people can network and also ask questions to me directly. So any questions that you have? Feel free to message them in the comments below. And John, thank you again for taking the rest of your Friday to join me. I really appreciate it.

John Reinesch: No problem. Thanks for having me.

Lea Pica: So that was such a fun little departure from the normal realm. You know, it’s it is such a blessing to be able to talk to so many subject matter experts in this field and afford that knowledge to the community. But sometimes I forget to really take stock of the effect that has on the community itself. And it was just so gratifying to hear how this one exceptional student put to use everything that he learned in this training. And it just really gave me so much vision of the possibility of it being so much bigger with this launch. So thanks so much for listening. All the links and, you know, everything we talked about and even a link to that Facebook live. And my page will be on these show notes page for this episode at leapica.com/046. I would love if you could leave me a comment or suggestions. Any questions you might have about this training? Because I always want to hear about the challenges you face when presenting information and what you’d be looking for from a training like this. It’s going to be improved and added to and refined constantly over time. So that’s all a product of spending the last five years of working with you, training with you, collaborating with you, and listening to what it is you need and want.

Lea Pica: And I’ll leave you with today’s bit of presentation inspiration by Brian Herbert. And that is the capacity to learn is a gift. The ability to learn is a skill. The willingness to learn is a choice. My take as someone driven by a continual thirst for personal and professional growth, I can attest that making the choice to learn is the most important investment that you can make for your career and for yourself. And I hope that today you’ve gotten just a little glimpse of how that investment can work for you, too.

Lea Pica: That’s it for today. Hop on over to leapica.com/bootcamp to get all signed up for the training that you wish you had and you won’t find anywhere else.

Lea Pica: And stay tuned, because when school’s back in session in September, I’m going to have an amazing streak of authors who have some incredible books to offer to the community in terms of DataViz and destruction and detention. So I’m going to be having guests like Nir Eyal in our Alberto Cairo and many, many more.

Lea Pica: So stay tuned for that. And I’m wishing you an amazing August. Now stay and Namago.

Lea is a digital analyst and marketer turned Data Storytelling Evangelist. She trains thousands of digital practitioners and consultants in the art and science of impactful data presentation through her blog and podcast, The Present Beyond Measure Show. Lea is also the creator of The PICA Protocol™, her practical prescription for healthy, actionable data stories that inform decisions, spark ideas, inspire action, and make YOU indispensable.